tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8074451.post617021800848645868..comments2024-02-05T05:56:50.392-05:00Comments on Insult Swordfighting: A New Taxonomy of Gamers: Skill Players vs. TouristsMitch Krpatahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15987162934932391765noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8074451.post-26557272453563966402011-02-27T12:13:20.209-05:002011-02-27T12:13:20.209-05:00Some other labels for "tourist":
Story-...Some other labels for "tourist":<br /><br />Story-driven gamer<br />prolific gamer (they play more games)<br />day-tripper?<br />Movie-gamer<br /><br />Let me explain that last one. One of the distinctions I like to make is between games-as-movies (e.g. uncharted 2) vs. games-as-simulation (e.g. ArmA 2) vs. games-as-chess (e.g. Starcraft 2).<br /><br />The "tourist" gamer is really just treating games like movies, so you could just call them movie-gamers.Atanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14834663754768855057noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8074451.post-87239511347532525982011-02-27T05:59:02.302-05:002011-02-27T05:59:02.302-05:00Agreeing with Johnson, the term "Tourist"...Agreeing with Johnson, the term "Tourist" is really insulting to me. Everyone hates tourists. They come, they spend money so you have to be nice to them for the sake of the economy, they are clueless idiots who gawk at things ignorantly, and you are really glad when they're gone. This is the image that the label "tourist" brings to my mind. (Although there are also tourists who learn the language first, go off the beaten path, or don't fit the negative stereotypes in other ways, and they are still tourists, not "knowledge travelers" or some other category of visitor.) So-called casual gamers need a label, if they're going to have a label (I've heard it argued that we're all casual gamers really but I forget why), that doesn't say "people who play games but are not real gamers because they have crappy low skill levels," and "Tourist" is absolutely not doing it for me.meerkatnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8074451.post-33216464756401816642010-01-11T13:27:15.958-05:002010-01-11T13:27:15.958-05:00Linked through a post on destructoid regarding DLC...Linked through a post on destructoid regarding DLC and Borderlands.<br /><br />You're definitions and therefore basis of this entire series is flawed.<br /><br />Like my previous comment in the previous part, there are only two definitions if you will for gamers. Those who spend time, and those who spend less time. The categorization of gamers as "skilled vs tourist" is more of another discussion. Both skilled and tourist being separate groups, and should be compared against their own counterparts, namely their opposites.<br /><br />Consider this: A person who plays a game for "achievements" can be a casual player, yet he is still unlocking ranks and what not. Furthermore, in MW2, unlocks and ranks do not correspond with higher skill. <br /><br />All gamers are tourists by your definition as well. Nobody buy's a game purely for the bragging rights. Any consideration for story or graphical eyecandy is captured by your tourist definition. <br /><br />I appreciate your article nevertheless, but I hope people will come to realize gaming for what it really is in the future (which is to say, you are wrong).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8074451.post-55687578089260827242009-12-21T20:41:45.262-05:002009-12-21T20:41:45.262-05:00I disagree with James's comment that skill pla...I disagree with James's comment that skill players focus on best methods and best results. I consider myself a hardcore player, and many times I have made up my own challenges in games, for instance, not using the jet pack in GTA San Andreas to collect items or only using one weapon in Fracture. There is no reward for doing these, and it is NOT efficient, but it's fun, and doing it reveals subtleties of the game I don't notice in regular game play.NWnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8074451.post-14566344406742229682009-10-01T15:23:42.337-04:002009-10-01T15:23:42.337-04:00In this post you distinguish skill players and tou...In this post you distinguish skill players and tourists on WHY they play the game. You could arrive at a somewhat different distinction by focusing on HOW they play:<br /><br />Skill Players (Min-maxer's, hardcores, etc):<br />Focus on doing things "the best way" e.g., they stick to the strongest weapons, methods, spells, classes, etc. Mostly concerned with being "good" at the game, mastering the controls, the mechanics, etc. These players prefer games with high skill ceilings like Starcraft or Counterstrike. They often complain about game elements that have "no point" or "aren't worth it". At the same time, they are aware of and appreciate subtle aspects of game design that less competitive gamers will not be aware of.<br /><br /><br />Tourists ( or "experiencers", "role-players"):<br />These players play for the immersion, the story, the setting, the sound, the characters, etc. They are more concerned with a nice presentation than challenging gameplay. They appreciate game elements that the hardcore don't, because they aren't as focus on gameplay "win" value alone. They are more interested in the story value or fun-factor.<br /><br />These players approach games more like how most people approach movies and books, as a fun experience to be immersed in for a time. They aren't as interested in long-term perfection of gameplay mechanics, because for them the appeal of any game, like a book or movie, tends to grow stale over time.<br /><br /><br />This sort of divide is perhaps most obvious in the MMO genre, but it present in many other genres as well. Halo wars is obviously more about the experience and the story than about the gameplay. Multiplayer shooters like Battlefield focus entirely on gameplay and have no story. One of the appeals of Left 4 Dead is that it brings an element of immersion and story that few multiplayer titles can offer.<br /><br />One of the big problems with this divide is the fact that the two orientations often inhibit one another. Focusing on competition and winning often waters down any sense of story and realism, and gameplay elements may actively inhibit thinking about the setting and the story. Some obvious examples include: playing with experienced players who want to zip past any story elements, turning off grass effects to gain visibility, cranking up the brightness of the display, etc. On the other hand, the very best games tend to make the gameplay elements work well within the logic of the story and setting.Atanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14834663754768855057noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8074451.post-34838419757803279482008-04-18T16:26:00.000-04:002008-04-18T16:26:00.000-04:00Haha-- well, at least in the case of games we get ...Haha-- well, at least in the case of games we get to choose the world we live in.<BR/><BR/>Anyway, that's how I perceive this dividing line between "skill player and tourist," in terms of seeing yourself as accessing developer-created content versus discovering emergent qualities of the game by yourself. I feel like, from a descriptive perspective, that's a good, clear way of breaking down the difference between these two styles of interacting with a game. Maybe it's more helpful because it's a more explicit continuum, rather than two discrete concepts.<BR/><BR/>I liked your article very much.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8074451.post-45584802356384823172008-04-16T13:53:00.000-04:002008-04-16T13:53:00.000-04:00That's an excellent comment; thanks for contributi...That's an excellent comment; thanks for contributing it. <BR/><BR/>You're definitely right that there's a difference between developer-defined goals and player-defined goals, although untangling them in most cases may be tricky, if not impossible. In the most fundamental sense, even if a developer gives you a sandbox and no through-line to follow, you're still constrained to making choices within the framework they've already defined for you.<BR/><BR/>Good lord, it's the free will argument!Mitch Krpatahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15987162934932391765noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8074451.post-69573468447445297172008-04-16T11:58:00.000-04:002008-04-16T11:58:00.000-04:00Hi there; found your page through N’Gai Croal’s me...Hi there; found your page through N’Gai Croal’s mention of you on 1up Yours.<BR/><BR/>I think the difference lies in whether the player sees the goal they pursue as self-defined or as developer-defined. If you’re trying to finish the story or see more level art, then the goal you’re pursuing is access to more developer-created content. If you’re trying to get a perfect score on something, you’re making your own fun in a sense by inventing the goal and pursuing it. Maybe the former sounds enticingly like “tourism” because it seems like you’re checking things off on a list—but the line is blurry because the difficulty of any challenge is determined by parameters set by the developer, and by turning minute, perfectionistic goals into explicit achievements, developers blur the line still further. <BR/><BR/>As for Gabe’s situation with Metroid, I think that for some people and some games, the narrative and revelation of content in the single player game compels you to make constant progress, and that confronting an insurmountable challenge jams up the sense of progress towards completion of the whole. The existence of the challenge isn’t necessarily the problem; you falling conspicuously short in confronting it is. If a game is a book that the player coauthors, then a boss you can’t beat is like a sentence whose words you keep jumbling up.<BR/><BR/>I think the main problem of the tourist metaphor is that it suggests that the “sandbox” (or “the France”) is there in all games and that the game “tourist” is one who largely ignores it by taking a straight shot through. I think, as the Hilmar Petursson quote expresses, many games actually don’t have that going on, and the straight shot through all the amusement park rides is the game exactly as its developers expect it to be played, and in fact they even specify the order of the rides and the length of the lines. So to some extent there might be player types, but of course there are game types too, and basically I think that whether a person turns a game into a sandbox for experimenting with their skills or not is ultimately more a sign of how much they like the game than whether they’ve got the perfectionist bug or not.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8074451.post-20670415761868266902008-01-09T07:39:00.000-05:002008-01-09T07:39:00.000-05:00Any suggestions for better or more accurate terms ...Any suggestions for better or more accurate terms are certainly welcome. Believe me, they get even more problematic later!Mitch Krpatahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15987162934932391765noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8074451.post-72848355708968654632008-01-08T23:07:00.000-05:002008-01-08T23:07:00.000-05:00Also: I can't wait for the next piece, as, for me,...Also: I can't wait for the next piece, as, for me, that's the sole exception of which I can think.Mikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10567123950935372564noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8074451.post-12379605264508247892008-01-08T23:06:00.000-05:002008-01-08T23:06:00.000-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Mikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10567123950935372564noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8074451.post-33470954782095033312008-01-08T23:05:00.000-05:002008-01-08T23:05:00.000-05:00Interesting. Isn't there a better word than the ug...Interesting. Isn't there a better word than the ugly "T" word, though, especially as I realize it's describing me whether or not I like it?Mikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10567123950935372564noreply@blogger.com